CBE in Canvas: A Straightforward Approach

Hello, everybody. My name is Aaron Ward. I am the media designer for South college. And I'm Deb Barnhardt. I'm the associate director of instructional design and technology itself. We are here to talk about CBE and Canvas, and I know you probably all know, but just to double check, what does CBE stand for? Thank you.

You all got the right one. Good job. Yep. Good job. You all wanna see to this chat right now.

So So we're just gonna start with a couple of quick questions for you. Does anyone know how many higher ed institutions offer c v c v e in the US? Anyone throughout a ballpark? Five. Five. Fives one answer. That sometimes, doesn't it? You could throw out guesses.

It's okay. Twenty twenty? Okay. How many? A hundred and twenty five. Yep. That's actually I mean, as of twenty twenty one, there is just over a hundred and twenty five programs.

Hundred and twenty five. Nice. Alright. Does anyone know how many individual CBE programs are offered in the US, not just higher ed? Five. Hand, it'll be more than a hundred and twenty five.

Way up from that. Yes. We do play price of rice rolls. Way up from that. One seventy five.

Way up. Keep going. Keep going. Two thousand. Down.

You go high every time. About a thousand fifty. Different programs are offered through CB as of the two thousand twenty one. Does anyone know who makes up the majority of CBE students? Nursing is a very popular and growing program in CBE. The majority of the learners are made up of non tradition students, those over the age of twenty five.

So half credit, partial credit for each of you. Such a serious group. Wow. Stay tuned then. I know.

Right? Anybody know what the most valuable asset? That these adult learners bring to the classroom. Oh. They got it. Yep. Yep.

Yep. Yep. How about does anyone know when the first recognized CBE program was in United States education? I'll give you a hint. It was before I was born. Yeah.

Oh, wow. That heard. I said I said, I'll give you a hint. It was actually before I was born. And one someone over here in the bad area said, oh, wow.

Like, that's a long time ago. Nineteen ninety seven. Thank you. Thank you. It it was actually the nineteen sixties.

So the first CBE programs emerged in the nineteen sixties, but until there was more technology available, CBE really didn't expand and grow. So now it's available on a much broader scale because we can cross over all of those barriers with technology. Nobody wants to wait on snail mail? Nope. Right. So that's just a little introduction to CBE.

We're going to go ahead and turn it over to the rest of our group. They're going to introduce themselves and then go through the different parts of CBE and how we implemented it itself. Alright. I'm Hey, everybody. My name is Jason Pietropalo.

I'm the director of instructional and design and technology at South College. Before we get into what we did with CBE, just Has anybody heard of South College? I feel like we're asking a lot of questions. There will be a test later. Anybody heard of South College? Cool. So we're based, out of Knoxville, Tennessee.

I actually live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We have we're well represented. We have some from Knoxville, some from Texas, some from Pittsburgh. But we have campuses as you can see in Nashville, Atlanta, Orlando, Ashfield, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and we have an online campus. And our newest campus, that is gonna be officially designated a campus as of October is our CBE campus.

So we're we're making it its its own campus. But just a little more background about South College. We have about eight thousand students. We have a pretty rapid growth plan. So we're hoping to hit over ten thousand by the beginning of next year, and then up to fifteen thousand.

So We're continuing to grow, which is, you know, a unique thing in higher ed these days. And I think it's because our chancellor whose name is mister South. It's not because we're in Tennessee that we're called South College. Our chancellor's name is Steven South. He continues to be innovative in how we are approaching education.

And I think Part of why we've adopted CBE is because of he saw it as an opportunity, to continue to grow our campus, particularly for some of these, high rate programs that we'll talk about in a little bit. Alright. What's next? Oh, it's us. That's me at the top. Jason, I'm the director.

These are the people that are my minions here. Oh, we have Deb, Tory, CC, Aaron, and Stacy. They're all gonna talk today, and they're all gonna say much smarter things than I do. So, yeah, without further ado, our vice president of CB, Doctor. Michael Patrick couldn't be here today, but he did record a short video that I wanna play for y'all.

Hopefully, it works. This is the hardest part of the technology piece that we've done. That's not it? Alright. Hello. My name is Doctor.

Michael Patrick, and I'm the vice president of competency based education at South College. Prior to my time at South College, I spent five years as an administrator at Western Governors University serving as the leader of multiple departments that primarily focused on undergraduate and graduate students. During this time, I recognized that student demand and need for students to continue their competency based education journey and a doctoral degree. In the fall of two thousand twenty one, we were able to bring the first SAC COC approved doctoral competency based education program that is delivered through a subscription based model. This was our Doctorative Education degree.

And in the fall of two thousand twenty two, we launched our second Toral CBE degree, which was a doctorate of business administration degree. Students are able to earn their degrees on their time using their existing skills and knowledge on a variety of assessments through courses, which can allow them to accelerate their pacing versus a traditional doctoral degree. And our subscription model, there are no due dates for assignments. No limit on the number of courses they can complete within a term. And we found this to be an important aspect for the self paced adult learner.

As our programs have continued to grow, we have added post doctoral certificates and added multiple graduate and doctoral degrees or in the planning stages at this time. We count as an honor to offer a CPE model to doctoral students. Thank you for your time today. Alright. He would appreciate if everybody clapped for him probably.

That's just the kind of guy he is. So yeah, that's a little bit of background about, where we're coming from, where we are as an institution. That's, the leader of CBE, but I guess what you might be asking is why we're here presenting at Instructure Con. So what happened is when we initially rolled out CDE. We decided against my better judgment, at least I think, to go with a boutique LMS outside of our traditional Canvas learning management system, which we use for all our other students.

So that decision was made and we went with this other LMS, which we won't name in case anybody's here that works with them. And it didn't work very well for a variety of reasons. It wasn't as flexible as Canvas was. It didn't allow us to pull the data in the same way that Canvas does. It was it was difficult to track students.

There was just a a wide variety of of issues. But with the way that CB is set up, we we didn't know if Canvas could actually work or or CBE could work within Canvas, particularly because we were just so used to as a department, you know, churning out think we have something like fifteen thousand, you know, canvas courses, all done very, very much the same way, all very linear. We use a template, a blueprinted version, you know, model. So we didn't know if we could, we could pull this off. So that's why, We hire smart people like Tori.

And Tori is gonna tell us a little bit about how she figured out how to make CBE work in Canvas. Alright. Thank you, Jason. I'm gonna stand over here by the podium, so I can see the computer. Yeah.

Alright. So I'm Tori Sensing. I'm an instructional technology specialist at South. I'm based in Knoxville. And, I I kinda don't like it when people tell me things can't be done.

And so, one Friday, I was in this meeting, and they said, Hey, CBE can't do it in Canvas. And I was like, Oh, I don't like that. So I spent all weekend trying to find a way to make it work for our school in Canvas, And I came up with a plan, and I presented it, and we piloted it, and it worked. So that's what I'm gonna show you today. It's an extremely simple model.

I feel like it's very simple. So, you don't need anything really outside of canvas to make it work. So This is a this is just our standard landing page matches most of the courses that we have at South. Our in our courses, we have most of them have five to seven competencies that students have to pass in order to pass course. So we list those here on the right side of our page.

And so then students log into the course, they can just hop right to it. And then on the left side, it's just student at Vermino, quick resources, things like that. So when a student well, I guess we'll start with the faculty. When faculty members hit the Canvas modules page, they have this first module at the top. That's just faculty resource So we always in most of our courses, we have this faculty resource module at the top that we leave unpublished just for faculty members to have quick access to things that are relevant to the particular course.

So from a student's perspective, when they log into this course, they will see the introduction to the course module right here. And then they will have access to all of the resources in this chunk right here. So you'll see right here it says complete the following to unlock the course content. So when a student logs into the course, all the content is locked. Except for this first module.

And the reason we do that is because the way our SIS is set up, when a student finishes a CBE course, they're immediately enrolled into the next course because we found CBE students are very impatient. And so they and with our motivated, motivated. That's good. Highly motivated. So when they finish a course, they wanna go to the next one, like, right away.

So, our, our software engineer has set it up so that when a student finishes course, they go right into the next one. Well, if the student's not ready to go into the next one, their since it's a subscription mod model, they're already, like, charged in the subscription model. So, we put this piece in here where it's like a course acknowledgement quiz. So they have to answer three questions. It says I've read the syllabus.

I've read the handbook. I want to proceed with this course. And that just keeps us covered to make sure they actually want in the course before we unlock all the content. So if you're not familiar with how to set up re prerequisites and requirements, it's the three dot kebab menu here. And, you click edit, and then you can set your module requirements here.

So, that's how we set it up to lock everything down. And then once they complete that quiz, they have to score a three out of three, everything unlocks, kind of everything unlocks. So each module or each competency in the course is broken down into two chunks. There is the content chunk and the project module chunk. So when a when a student unlocks the course, all of the competencies are unlocked.

So competency one, two, three, four, five, but the project modules are not unlocked. And that's because we want to we want the students to complete the content piece before they move into the project piece or the deliverable piece. So within the, within the content piece, this is the lecture material here. We do that in articulate rice. It has videos and readings and things like that they can go to.

Once they finish that, they move on to a formative assessment, which is set up as, like, a discussion format with faculty member. We want the there to be a, a dialogue between the faculty and the, the student to make sure the student understands all of the content before they move on project module. Some of our competencies have two, maybe three formatives, some have one, but they have to score at least a one one out of one. And that's the, kind of, the code that unlocks everything. So, because there are no grades in our CPE program.

So we just have that. Yeah. Because everything's mastery, won't mastery. But we put that grade in there to make, the prerequisites work and the requirements work for the module. So they score one out of one.

That's the professor gives them a one. Then that's saying, you can move on to the project module. Seventy two hours is our goal for grading. So students don't have to wait long in our in the subscription plan. That's, again, they're highly motivated.

So once they unlock their project mod once they unlock once they finish their competency, they unlock the project module, and then they can submit their deliverables. And once they pass their deliverables, they've passed that competency, and that competency is done. I can't hit myself quiet. I just I get so excited, though. One of the things I wanna point out, if you're looking to replicate this for your own program in Canvas, is that project preview.

Cause while the project module or the summative, we've actually change that up, and we use the word summative module. The summative module is locked. The students can't read it, but we put in that little preview piece. So a student can see what the assessment will be ahead of time. That's something I really love about our courses.

Is that a student can go in and be prepared. They can go ahead and review everything if they'd like to know what is coming, even though they can't submit it yet. Right? We're still making them we're still scaffolding, learning, not letting them get ahead of themselves, but they know they can see the map, basically, of what's happening. Yeah. So there's no there's no, yeah, they don't have to wait You know, there's that seventy two hours they've submitted that formative, you know, once it's approved, then they can go ahead and start.

Yes. Yes. Sure. It's embed their articulate rise, it's embedded into the Canvas page. Scorm.

It's a scorm package, though. It is scorm. Yeah. No. It's not set up that way.

It could be. Yeah. But it's not. Yeah. Depending on the way you're going with your CBE, but as we talked earlier, most of this, if we're thinking higher ed space, adult learners, their most valuable asset is their experience, and we're letting them leverage this experience to some by not forcing them to go each little piece of the content.

They have the experience. They might already be familiar with these things. Right? And that's why we get to the assessments. Right? And that's where we confirm. Hope you need a mic, Jason, if you're gonna talk Well, I was gonna ask or or or say, I know we had some issues when we were talking about the delivery of the formatives with discussion boards.

Using a discussion board versus using an assignment because we didn't want students to be able to see other students. Right? Am I am I am I speaking correctly here? So we we actually used, or have been using harmonize it. I don't know if you guys harmonize is is here. Because that tool allows discussion boards, but it allows only a interaction between the student and one or instructor and one student at a time. So instructors couldn't see or or students couldn't see each other just like back and forth in that part of it.

But now we've actually gone to just using assignments because we think that's probably a little bit cleaner than than having to use a third party. So it's been a learning experience for us as we're trying to, like, figure out how to make work. We've tried a couple of different tools, but now and our goal ultimately with all our courses is to keep them all within Canvas, you know, and not not try to bog down the experience for students with anything else. And so I think we've got a great place. Continue.

Absolutely. Are there any questions about this so far? Yes. Yes. That's a good question. They we hire SMEs to design the courses.

And then, so no matter what who which faculty is teaching it, the assignments will be the same. And so right now, and, like, each student has their own section in Canvas. So there's only one student in each section. That's how it's set up also. Does I answer, or are you thinking of like a specific example of what an assessment would be for a deliverable.

I mean, that was great. Mhmm. So we'll get into it in a minute. But I'm I'll I'm a student in the program as well, so that's some of the stuff that I say comes from. I'm in the EDD, the program for adult learning and development.

So I've had classes I built an infographic on if we were developed this new program and, you know, advertising it and getting all the details in there. I've had to right communication. I can I really love the flexibility that we've all? It's weird because I'm in the middle here. I'm like, a student And an employee, and I've only been in, as an employee for two months. I'm still getting in there.

So when I say we or they, I got distracted at the moment. There's a lot of flexibility into how they're, I've had assessments where I need basically it's some sort of communication. I need to get something across, and so I will choose to write it out as an email. Like, as I was emailing somebody, or I could record myself talking as if like I was in a meeting. Lots of papers.

I mean, Doctor. Old Degree, papers. Research papers. Alright. We have a question back here.

So that's something we actually are not doing now. So what, another challenge that I wish I could speak to greater than length to towards, but I I can sort of skim the surface is how this works because we, you know, we're a traditional institution, you know, with with cordal quarter terms. And so all of our financial aid, all of our, you know, billing, all of our enrollment, all that automation is is set up already with our SIS. So what we've had to do is figure out how we can continue to have automation. We sort of have these unlimited terms.

And the and the idea that, you know, students can just sit there, or and then they have to move, and they have to move it right away and get the get all of those pieces of automation more one of the things we originally tried was we thought, well, if we build individual sections in canvas within the course, then that would help us, pass back that information, in a cleaner way. It really hasn't worked that well, to be honest. So we've just we just started what we're calling our version two point o of of a bunch of our courses. Continuous improvement. Continuous improvement, and they're not we're not using sections.

So we actually broke our automation last, like, two weeks ago. And So we're trying to build new automation and we're not trying to have sections. We've, you know, we're getting into, like, nuances that I don't really know, but we're we're building six month terms, and we're like rolling them over, from term to term. So we're actually not using sections anymore. That's a new development.

I don't know if Tory was aware, but we did break the automation, and that's super fun. And that custom automation over that that sync that you did. Is that custom work that you put inside? Yeah. Yeah. We use anthology.

Anthology conference was last week. So we were trying to figure out how to get them to to do it. Yeah. But it's all custom code by our systems engineer is not here because he was at the anthology conference in Nashville. But yeah, we're working to rebuild that automation, just by by hand, but, you know, begging him with, like, trips to Topgolf, to build the code that will allow this automation to work.

Right. Right. Right. Right. We're sick of national, Denver's better anyway.

And Blackboard, I don't even wanna talk about Blackboard. Yeah. Those good questions. Any other questions before we keep going? Yeah. Like, the section feature I know it's sections is weird.

Like, so, you know, there's a, there's a section of course that the course lives in in the individual section piece within Canvas, we are not doing that anymore because that proved to not work the way we we thought it would work. But the way our students are, they don't see each other in the course. Yeah, so it's not like they know of the other students in there. You know, if you know, CV, we really need to be a one to one experience. One to one.

So student only sees the instructor, and, and that's how their experience is. There's no other students for them to to see. Thanks, Stacy. Alright. So this is just how this is set up in our courses.

So this is just duplicated times five in this particular course. And then there's a final project at the end. So you have to complete, all of the competencies to unlock the final project. And that's just that's pretty basic. I feel like it's pretty a simplistic way to set it up.

To keep everything clean, the naming convention we go with in Canvas, anything that fits in a competency we just label it with that competency number. So, like, this is competency three. So three c three, formative one, formative two, that just helps us keep our assignments and everything nice and neat in Canvas. It's also really convenient as a student versus having the name of the assignment, but having this. So me and the professor on the same page when I have questions, or if I have some sort of issue and I need to reach out to my mentor or IT, right? It's very specific.

And this was trial and error, for sure. It was like And she said she worked on the weekend. I didn't make her work on the weekend. No. He didn't.

It was just it was just I had to I had to I had to figure it out. Okay. So just a basic kinda how to timeline to set this up in Canvas, determine your competencies, align your formatives and deliverables or some formatives and sumitives to those. Create your lecture content, you know, and all your, materials that are gonna go with it, just organize it into modules, And then I think the heart of it all is that it's just set up in that prerequisites and requirements settings in the modules. That's kind of the key to it.

Are those the way things are locked down? So everything's not just wide open, and it forces that interaction between the faculty member and the student. So I'm gonna pass it to Stace. She's got a quick piece here. So we actually use, impact as anybody am familiar with. It's another canvas product.

So that is one One thing, they've touched on it. Some, you know, how the students are motivated, and they wanna be, in another course. Well, every once in a while in CBD, you might have somebody who's unmotivated. So we use impact, to kinda leverage the participation in the course. So if we have a student that hasn't participated in thirty days, like, we want to know about that so that we have student success advisors, specifically for our CB program.

And so they would reach out and say, Hey, you know, how's everything going? What's going on? You know, stuff goes on in people's lives. Right? So So, that's how we use impact, to kinda help us gauge, like the student participation in the course. And then Jason touched on this a little bit. We have built some automation on the back end of Canvas to have it talk to our student information system. Cause if you know anything about, like, the legal behind it, the SIS is king.

Right? Like, that is where the student record lives, any important information, lives in that student information system, which we use as anthology. And, he's developed a ton of code to get the automation rolling. And then, like Jason said, we broke it. So so he's having to, to write all that code again. But we are partnering with our, IT.

We're instructional design and technology. And so we are partnering with IT very closely to get students enrolled and all the data about grades and pass rates and all that sort of stuff back into our SIS system, where it has to live for the student occurred. Are there any questions about that? I can't go super deep into, like, the code and stuff. But Yeah. Can tell you that.

The the the three most important pieces of of the automation for CBE is we need Canvas to tell our system when a student participates for the first time. Right? Because that that triggers that enrollment. We need our grades to pass back. I mean, that makes makes sense. Then we needed to push a student from one course to the next.

Those are the three automation pieces that we broke recently. And that we're trying to fix. Can I have the clicker? We need Sure. Sorry. We need Canvas to tell, our SIS wins a student participates for the first time.

We needed to pass back grades to from Canvas to our SIS. And we need that to trigger, a final grade in the course. And then push the student into the next course automatically. So those are like the the pieces that we're working on on correcting. And I she talked a little bit about impact too.

There and we need to learn more about impact as a as a a group because we're paying for it. And they expect results, but The one really cool thing is what she said is we can just push out notifications to students, like every fifteen days, every thirty days. And you can just because we just have one type of assessment, right? We can just put that that note on that that as the trigger. Like, if it hasn't completed one assessment, then send this note out, you know, in fifteen days, thirty days, forty five. You've never gotten any of those.

Have you c c? I have. But one of the things, I guess as a student hearing this, trying to think of, like, the context of how I word things, So if we hadn't gotten into it yet, but they're six month terms. Right? So that's a lot of times. So when we say thirty days, it might not it's not as crazy when you think of it in the context six months versus, you know, your your shorter terms. But, like, for me with CBE, I had a death in the family, and so I kinda just put some stuff on the back burner.

That was one of them. And so I hadn't touched anything. And so a month went by, and I got that message, like, Hey, haven't seen you in for a while. You know? Check back in. What's going on? Reach out to your mentor.

And I did a I didn't realize it was automated as a student. So I was like, oh, these guys are watching. Right. Because you can make it personalized. Like, hey, c c.

I'm back. I went to the mentor. I thought I was not, like, in trouble, but I was just like, oh, I really need to get on to things. It doesn't it does its job. Does it stop? But just a question? Is that when they take that, through the participation? Yeah.

That's that's how we sort of trigger that participation in the course. And that's that's a lot of legal reasons too, you know, for distribution of aid. It's like now they're in that course. So are you just enrolling students there? I mean, are they signing up their their mix of classes and you're putting them in those. Initially, how do they have access to their class? That's what I guess or enable in order to participate, I guess, of course.

Well, right now, we get an email that says, could you put this person in a class and we do that? Just because like I said, a couple of times now, we've broken the automation. So, yeah, we will just literally enroll them you know, when, what should be happening is they they finished that last competency piece. It goes to our SIS. They are now done that class. They get a grade in our in in our campus view that triggers them to be enrolled in that class.

If that class then appears on their dashboard, and they in the, you know, when the automated was working, they knew that worked almost instantaneously. So within, like, four hours, they knew they should have that course, and they would complain if it didn't show up. Because they're trying to get it done as quickly as possible. And then it would just sort of sit there until they unlock it with that participation piece. And then you're asking about what specific classes like student choice.

For these programs, the doctoral degrees right now, they're you go on one You don't really have choices and we take classes one at a time as a student. So you know what you're getting enrolled in enrolled into next The very beginning, it does start off with two courses. You you're enrolled for two, but once you finish the second one, it's then gonna just be one at a time. It's alright. One question.

With the six month term, do you ever get what happens if you get stuck halfway at the end of the term? Just pick it up for your role. Like, if you're not, you're stuck with all of these facts, it seems very Right. So the the term is is act is a, you know, we obviously use term, but the term is kind of like the payment term. Right? So you're paying six months at a time. So in theory, if you could finish all of your courses within six months, you just pay for that one term.

So, yeah, you just roll over, like, that term doesn't really mean anything except you owe more money. Netflix. Yeah. It's kind of like we we compare it to Netflix, you know, you're you can do as much as you want within your period of time and then you re up. But if you do nothing, same with Netflix.

You can pay Netflix for the month and you don't watch anything, you don't get your money back. That's it is what it is. But, yeah. And and as CB students, I mean, particularly as doctoral students with busy lives. I mean, we have pacing guides, you know, as well as like, Hey, you're pacing at this right now.

You should finish, you know, x day you know, if you wanna slow down, you can, if you wanna try to speed up, you can. You'll be done. If you finish these courses, you'll be done now. As far as pacing, I know it's kinda separate from our conversation here, but the mentors success coach, advisor, whatever term word you wanna use, very important role. Very important role.

Yes. So I was stuck on, like, impact for a moment in my brain. And so I that I you're utilizing that. Are you guys utilizing rubrics and outcomes any way to track, like, students throughout, like, if there's a competency that builds throughout. Got it.

Obviously, like, you have your competencies broken out one by But is there ever a competency that's kind of demonstrated within those competencies that you were then tracking using outcomes? We're not using outcomes at this moment in this program. But that's one of our next steps. That's gonna be probably our three point o version of these courses. We're gonna add outcomes to it. But and we do use rubrics within the assignments, and the rubrics are all there's, there's no grades.

It's just mastery. And so if you don't achieve mastery, then you resubmit the assignment using the feedback from your faculty member until you reach mastery. It may be good. Outcomes would be good. I think we should get on that.

Lots of questions. Yeah. Do you do you wanna take the questions or get to your part? I don't need my I just I'm gonna jump through real quick just so you have it here for those that wanted it. You because you already kind of heard that I'm a student, so I was student perspective, but I feel like we probably wanna answer more questions than anything. Just just click it through to the next page.

This is just me as a student. I came here all these good things, why I picked it. I used to serve the state of Texas as CD advocate. So a bit background, it was a big deal to me on which program I went to. I really wanted a CBE doctoral degree, and there's not many options out there.

You can go ahead and go to the next and we'll just I'm just gonna leave this up while we answer questions for those that wanted to look at it. These are the current programs out there. They're a six month term for six thousand dollars and anybody who works in education, there is a grant. We're not here to do sales, but as somebody, like, I love Cve and other people out there might be in the same situation situation is me and you wanna get your doctorate, but you're an adult learner and there's, like, no time and you can't fit that in. So, you know, share the good news.

Okay. Start with you. I know you had a question. Oh, great. So my question was around the uncomfortable place.

Oh, okay. But that rolls up to accreditation. How do you take it out of here and roll it up to say that this is how you're meeting their connotation standards. That's a good question. I would probably hesitate to answer as we don't really serve on the accreditation side.

I know that, we are credited and that there is paperwork involved in, how that how that looks. But I would imagine, you know, we're we're just like any other course just using the outcome or just using the actual the grading models that we have. To say that we're we're meeting the standards of of that. But, we will our vice president, Michael Patrick, who you heard from, you know, he he did say that if anyone's interested or getting more information on that side of things or interested in in the program, you you can take down your information, and you can speak directly with them about that. They can scan a little clipboard.

Yes. Oh, they can scan the clipboard. I like that other page too. That was good if they wanted to see how much it costs and all the things we offer. But go ahead and leave a clipboard up.

A lot of customization into the visualization, you know, more personalized approach with all of this. And you can correct me if that's true or not, but would you say this is scalable, you know, with large enrollments? We have to get the automation to work, and we are confident that we can you know, right now, we we are down to one software engineer doing a lot of different projects. And so our goal is to have it up October one. The automation back. And I think that makes it very much scalable because what what we actually was done in canvas as much as Tori did a great job doing it.

The best part about it is she made it very simple. Anybody who uses Canvas can see that, you know, just using those requirements is not it's not a difficult thing to set up. There is, of course, the process of developing the courses and and all of that that takes time. But the actual time to put together a a If we get something from an SME that has all of the content, we can build these courses very quickly. So we're hoping to scale And what about your sorry.

Can I Yeah? Yeah. Go ahead. Just your your human capital, like your faculty in, like, fourteen like With the with one student and, you know, the one -- Right. -- ratio that you're talking about, like, how hard is that to? Yeah. So we have two fifty students now.

In the in the two programs, and and we'll start a a third on October. One, we have a, a a Dean for each of those programs. We have. I I don't how many mentors do we have? There's two now. There's two mentors.

Three very soon. And then I'm the for I am the the CBE instructional designer. So, you know, them. Right. Yeah.

More human capital for these. Right. So we have now the mentors, the the one instructional designer that we hired, we wanna hire now a, in October, we're gonna hire someone just for the financial aid part of it because that has proven to be tricky for the people who are working in our aid department just because they're used to the more traditional thing. And then I think we're gonna also hire someone to do registration like a registrar specific for it So as we as we grow and hit, you know, two hundred and fifty, three hundred, four hundred, that human capital will expand, but we'll hopefully we'll, you know, we'll we'll be able to scale with it as far as support. We'll answer more questions.

I just wanna throw it out there because I don't know if we put it out there, but one of our requirements is that all assessments, it's when the student receives their grade, they get feedback. There is feedback. You don't just get a e pass. You feel there's always feedback. And I find that to be very important and something I really appreciate as a student.

Because using Canvas, and I'll get my app notifications, and it'll say, okay, whatever course competency three deliverable two, and then I can write there the feedback for my professor. So I just throw that out there. Okay. Well, let's start with that back corner. Like how many how many faculty do we have and how do we figure out how how long they're in there or like how many faculty per student.

Thank you. Right. You check the assessments and Mhmm. Yeah. This is not the not like, I cannot think.

It's not I cannot think of what it is. There's not three people involved. It's Right. It's faculty in your mentor. You don't have this I don't know.

How many faculty do you have? Do you know how many faculty we currently have for CB? We have I mean, most of it. Most of them are adjunct at this point other than the the, the mentors who are also teaching courses. I think they're trying to they're I know they're trying to keep it. It's a it's a weird balance and and and Doctor Patrick would know more. I can only speak to his thinking is that it's very much we could have a hundred students in a course, but if only thirty of them are participating regularly, then how do we then juggle like the the course load.

So it's a lot of trial and error for us to try to figure that out. You know, and we're trying to use tools to gauge you know, how how much faculty are, you know, what their workload is. So I don't think right now we have great answers on that. I know we're trying to keep it So they can they can answer, they can grade within seventy two hours. So we have to keep that in mind, for free assessment, and they give, you know, good productive feedback.

And I can't This isn't here. This is for somewhere else. It was undergraduate level CBE, but the way theirs was set up was each undergraduate course faculty were paid x amount for any number of students up to twenty five. And then after twenty five students between that and thirty. There was incremental amounts, and then there was another cap.

Yep. We have twenty five students, but they're somewhat participating and how the how to figure out that Yeah. You'll see a lot of different things depending on the institutions. And then I'm just gonna do a shout out here. If I could shout out other you're looking into CBE, CBE exchange is a great place to talk to other CBE people to learn, it's a conference.

Happens in October. Are you speaking there? I am. I will be there. Yeah. I I kinda forgot for a second.

So when you do not have a student, pass, you don't get pushed to another fours to so if you did an assessment and you you didn't grasp the content, and the professor says, you know, this wasn't mastery, you'll get that feedback, and you'll depending on what you need as a student, if you need to meet with them to talk about it more, but they'll highlight the pieces that you were missing as part of the assignment, what you didn't quite get and go back and work on that. I don't know if that makes No. There is no c for continue or ds get degrees until you show mastery, you do not move forward. And there's no remedial. What you're talking about is like a remedial.

Yeah. And we're also it's kind of it's because we're talking doctoral level. And so some things for CBE when you're talking undergraduate, graduate at all. I know there's hands here, but I also think there was hands over here waiting. Yeah.

So I'm from the California community colleges in the, their pilot is CDE with the number of institutions. And, for those of you who are not from California, we are a system of one hundred fifty colleges. That's why I was like, oh, I know you got a lot going on. So just a handful. It is a multi year process.

And so, what we're looking at, with is for our trade partners, like, for example, automotive. And, we are using Canvas, we're a campus institution, and recently, instructure released the course pacing feature within cameras, and I wondering if you had any plans to possibly shift over to that feature pros cons I've looked so this is gonna sound terrible, but I remember when the the release came out. I remember looking at it and saying, I don't think this is going to work with what but I don't remember the specifics. So I don't there was some element of it that I I felt like wouldn't be better than the model we had already because we're already, I'm sorry, able to unlock and lock with the requisites pretty easily. So but I think pacing and the competencies are elements of canvas that we need to explore more of.

We have two minutes left. We just got the warning. I don't know exactly how this works because I don't know exactly how their contract is because while a term is six months a student We have start dates of, like, January, April, July, October. And so it's a student could have a term that starts from July and ends in December while you also have a student who is like April to October. So I I don't think that I don't know how much that makes sense verbally right there.

But, I don't think the instructors I don't know what they're doing. And I don't know. I I couldn't speak to the the contracts with the instructors. Doctor. Patrick.

Contact information is up there. Yeah. And he and I'm telling you, he told me, email him everybody, email them. All the questions that you have. He loves Cve.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a question about the enrollment process again. So are you putting them in Canvas manually? And then once they complete that that module to, you know, to trigger the process, then you enrolled them at your SIS? No.

They're enrolled in the SIS, We it's like a we do it concurrently. We'll put them in the SIS as a student in that course, and we'll put them in in Canvas. It's just the participation part of it. Is what is triggered by that, by that, that piece of the the quiz that unlocks things. So they I mean, they can hang out in the course in SIS, just like they can hang on the course in Canvas, but until they get that participation, that's when they're they're officially in the course.

And we have to end. Right? Yeah. We got it. Oh, okay. We'll be hanging out outside if you guys have any if you guys have more questions. But thank you. If you wanna get information.